Paintball is a fast and sometimes painful sport which are probably the number 1 and 2 reasons millions more people don’t play which is fine with me. Most will say “yeah I might play but don’t those paintballs hurt?” And others say they aren’t in shape or too old to run around the woods. In my mind either reason is Ok for a person to stay off the field and find something else to do for their recreation. For these people I have respect because getting shot does hurt (although not bad) and yes if you want to be good at it you’ll need to run around a bit or at least be smarter than your competition so if that’s not what you’re looking for why don’t you just not play?
Who I don’t have a lot of time or respect for are the people who come out to play a scenario game and do nothing but whine. Now to qualify what I’m saying and this is all just my opinion anyway-but, kids and the Dads playing with them are exempt and that’s about it as far as I’m concerned. Not so much the Dad is if ‘he’ gets lit up but he has every right to complain or set you straight if you over shoot his child. Kids can hear the rules many times and it still doesn’t always register and especially in the heat of battle it might be a little much to expect a young kid to remember to call himself out or put his hand in the air to signal you and stop firing. I’ve got in a few faces for this type of thing for both my boys and would expect nothing less from any other father. Also you might notice I said ‘scenario’ game. Scenarios are a win or lose competition and NOT just a friendly rec day with church members, that’s why people travel sometimes 1000′s of miles and spend just as much money to play. They want to win and they play hard, been that way for years and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
No, who I classify as whiners are the teens or adults who even with their $400 dollar guns get shot out and claim foul right away. They instantly say you were shooting hot, were to close or didn’t take the hit like you were suppose to. They bitterly complain to a ref, scream bloody murder at you or pout all the way up the trail and run to find someone who’ll listen to how they were unfairly eliminated. Are there times you you get overshot, shot from to close a distance or a take the hit backfires on you? Yea, and it will happen again so don’t be fooled into thinking it is exclusive to one field or one team and player.
It’s funny how these people are ‘rules aficionados’ after the fact and have all the exact play by play and no one else could be right. It 
amazes me because they usually have their backs turned or aren’t paying enough attention and let a guy get close enough to them to say ‘take the hit’ but suddenly it’s all clear and they know every detail. Oh and of course every shot they shoot is golden, their aim always hits it’s mark and the guy behind the tree must be wiping because they never miss. When a whiner takes more than a shot or two he cries aloud “overshooting” not realizing that 3 balls were in the air for every second he squirmed around in indecision and by the simple act of raising his gun in the air or calling himself out the firing would stop. Not good enough for the whiner, no they see only their little sphere in the world and all else revolves around them and when that sphere is bruised they cry foul and blame their inability on others.
It’s very simple, if you’re in scenario or competitive paintball, play by the rules but realize this game goes fast and in the heat of things you just may have to deal with better players, it’s how you get better too. You can’t stop a paintball that’s already flying and you can’t make someone take the hit and you may not have seen everything if your back was turned so stop whining, put your gun in the air and call yourself out. If this won’t satisfy you and you still think the world is wrong and you are right then why not put your equipment on e-bay and again, call yourself out, it will do us all some good.
{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }
What I find most interesting about this blog is the fact that almost all of the “whining” you discuss was done by Double Threat during a recent scenario game. Including overshooting a kid! Which you mention as exempt from you “version” of how scenarios are played.
The following is a list of things that Double Threat did that are NOT justifiable, regardless of how you view them. In 80% of these cases, my friends and myself were simply witnesses to the event in question.
Keep in mind that EVERY story has 2 sides and if only 1 or 2 of these actions occurred over the course of the day it wouldn’t even be an issue, but the number of unsportsmanlike occurrences creates a pattern of misconduct by Double Threat.
1) “Bonus Balling” and overshooting – Its one thing to occasionally shoot a few extra balls at someone, but the complaint from most people on the field was that Double Threat did it constantly…They even covered a 10 year old in paint. on 2 different occasions that I witnessed they shot someone who had their hands and gun in the air. This is a scenario paintball game with a 12bps limit! This isn’t an “oh a few balls are in the air and they hit as well”. These situations were after a player had their hands up.
2) Shooting people within 5 ft. – I witnessed the British player shoot 2 people at less than 5ft (the field has a 15ft rule), when a simple bunker tap would’ve sufficed. It turned out to be friendly fire to boot! Later in the game, double threat shot someone up close after double threat refused to acknowledge that they were eliminated by a “bang” rule. They caused that person to bleed from the neck.
3) Christian Bale style scream-fest at a ref – It was filled with cursing and didn’t even make sense. I believe it was over being called out, but it was hard to understand. Sounds a LOT like whining to me…Especially coming from a 30+ year old man to someone who looked like he was in his teens.
4) Physically shoving a teenage boy and screaming in his face – Is it necessary to push a kid just to emphasize that you “know the rules better than he does”? A 30 year old man pushing a teenager is assault last time I checked
5) Ball wiping – I personally saw a player from Double Threat wipe paint off during a firefight and never acknowledge being hit. This was no “my shot was golden”. I was out and waiting for the shooting to stop.
6) Refusing to acknowledge an elimination via a “bang” rule – that led to the up close shooting I mentioned above.
I’d be very interested in seeing Double Threat answer these instances with something beyond “its paintball it happens or stop whining”…I’ve played paintball off and on as money permits for over 15 years and I’ve NEVER witnessed this laundry list of unsportsmanlike acts before. Its NOT something that happens on every field…In this case, it was a single team and specifically in 80% of these cases a single player.
Again its sad that people like Double Threat are representatives of paintball…It gives the sport a bad name.
Your response to your ‘laundry list’ awaits you.
You may want to pick up your trophy while you’re at it..
“specifically in 80% of these cases a single player.”
“Physically shoving a teenage boy and screaming in his face”
Please read my previous comment, If you have a problem with this player, point it out. You can’t say it doesn’t help because we do sit people out for the day, ban them from subsequent games or ban them from the field. This has and does apply to Double Threat.
You may have been misinformed as to the rules at this field regarding taking the hit. It is voluntary.
You can continue to repost the same thing over and over again but it seems kind of pointless. Your allegations may be true, I was not there. You seem to be the kind of person who is concerned enough to post your thoughts. I would encourage you to continue so but also consider my previous comment on reporting such activities. This type of activity should be reported. Gather whiteness and let the appropriate people know. They will take care of the issue. We rely on people like yourself to do this, the same day if possible.
One thing that gets me about the overshooting rule is the fact that everyone wants to buy the fastest shooting gun and they wanrt to be able to shoot as fast as they can at every scenario event. This leads to the same situation: Overshooting…or what people call overshooting. When you are shooting 15+ bps, that means when you start ramping your gun trying to get that player out, you will generally throw out 30+ balls. at any given time when you hit someone, there are another group of balls headed your way. Its the facts of paintball. Everytime i get hit, i expect more to hit me right away. I call myself out on the first shot, but i await more and more.
As far as the close up shooting… Every time I play, i see people offer to take the hit, but the ones that are dead to rights either hesitate or try and shoot, both of which are able to be shot at, regardless of range… the ‘tap’ rule was taken away because whiners complained about being physically touched by another player. So now it comes to walking around telling people to take the hit, which when you walk up to 6 or 7 guys, there is always some guy that wont take it while everyone else does and walks away and shoots you, causing a huge argument because the guy worked so hard to get to the other side of the field to be shot out by a guy who didnt take the hit but just walked away and would eventually later say, “i didnt take the hit.” So do you keep wasting your time trying to get a group of people to take the hit because you cant tap them out anymore? Or do you kindly shoot them in the boot or sneaker heel or pack? Persoanlly, unless you have the center of my back, im not going to take the hit, and that is why each player is given the option. If i know I am in a position on the field and I am trying my best to hold onto that spot until my team mates come and join me, im going to do everything I can to keep that spot, which includes shooting someone who comes into the door of the building im in. If that other person has a problem getting shot at that range, they shouldnt run in that door.
I like how you throw out a team name and say that you witnessed all of this 80% of the time and that the players are all unsportsmanlike. I personally have 6 sportsmanship awards from local games, one from a national level and one that is given to one person per year (commander mo award). and NO, these are not all from the same field. Also, I am not the only person to have recieved the commander mo award from my team.
I personally got screamed at (along with a ref) by a member of double threat for standing safely behind a firefight with my barrel cover on; gun in the air; discussing with eliminated teammates where/how to re-insert and continue the game. The “gentleman” whos blog we’re writing on was belligerent and verbally abusive to the refs who caved to his pressure to change the rules to suit his personal views.
That’s cheating, plain and simple; especially when its an experienced adult player browbeating a teenage ref.
A ref with more experience or stones should rightfully have called general dutch out for dissent and disrupting the game, and probably invoked a 1 for 1, if such a thing exists at the field.
I confirmed the rule with Wayne himself, who indicated both gangster and fed teams could re-insert at will anywhere on the field. We were not interested in abusing the rule or taking cheap shots so we stopped to figure out where a safe and fair place to reinsert would be.
moving on.
The “voluntary” take the hit rule is in direct contradiction to the field’s stated 15-foot no shoot rule. This may be an issue to bring up with the field and not a team. Isn’t it clear that you can’t uphold a 15-foot no shoot rule if players aren’t obligated to “take the hit”? This is NOT an excuse to blast people from 5 feet away; that’s still cheating unless its an honest mistake. The rule are ambiguous, but during our safety briefing there was no indication that the “take the hit” rule was optional.
If that’s not the case, then field staff misinformed a large portion of the players, resulting in these situations. It was our first time at the field, we took them at their word and were surprised when the most experienced players at the game weren’t following the stated rules.
Hopefully this is enough information to address the lapses of sportsmanship we observed.
I understand everyone’s point of view about the stated rules of the field, but that doesn’t entitle you to break them. It just makes the game less fun and potentially dangerous.
Ok as there are numerous responses, I’ll try to answer them all as concisely as possible
First, let me say that while I’m sure some members of Double Threat are “sportsman” and adhere to the rules set forth by the field, at least 1 of them was not. Since each member represents that team if one of you cheats or violates the rules, you as a team are going to be viewed poorly.
In regard to who I am, this is an amalgamation of multiple witness accounts at different times throughout the event. I apologize if I wrote them in 1st person…I’m simply relaying what I was told by multiple sources (with the exception of the “helicopter” incident which had only 1 witness)
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@ Justin – Wayne and the Event organizer were informed about these specific events. As far as identifying specific members of Double Threat, I don’t know them personally, so specific identifying is difficult.
The “voluntary” take the hit rule is in direct contradiction to the field’s stated 15-foot no shoot rule. This may be an issue to bring up with the field and not a team. Isn’t it clear that you can’t uphold a 15-foot no shoot rule if players aren’t obligated to “take the hit”? This is NOT an excuse to blast people from 5 feet away; that’s still cheating unless it is an honest mistake. The rule is ambiguous, but during our safety briefing there was no indication that the “take the hit” rule was optional.
If that’s not the case, then field staff misinformed a large portion of the players, resulting in these situations. We took the staff at their word and were surprised when the most experienced players at the game weren’t following the stated rules.
As for the double post, I felt the need to respond to Dutch’s whining post…It was in fact the correct place to post this. The first was not.
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@ Bulldog – The color was called out in that bunker confrontation numerous times. It was heard by a third member of the blue team hiding in the bush on the side you hit the bunkered players. Also, you NEVER gave the opportunity to “take the hit” and shot one of the players within 5ft…I realize there is debate over this 15ft/take the hit rule, which hopefully will be resolved when I receive a response from Wayne via email.
Also, you personally threatened 2 different players with “I’ll shoot you again if you don’t put on your barrel condom” while their guns were in the air and they were reaching for their condoms…That’s very sportsmanlike…
In regard to your shoving (I was told it was you), even if it wasn’t a teenager you STILL got physical with someone. Which is FAR from sportsmanlike…Even if provoked by words, you still assaulted someone!
As far as the “I play hard and fast”, more power to you…Playing hard should not mean violating the rules.
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@ Shortstop – I do not mean that EVERY member of Double Threat is unsportsmanlike…However some of your teammates are…Each member is representative of that team and if one of you violates the rules, you will all be seen as that type of team.
Also, the safety briefing said that 15bps was the FASTEST anyone can shoot…If you are ramping up your gun, then you are violating the rules
As far as I understand it from the safety briefing, you give people a chance to “take the hit”, if they refuse that’s a different story. In the heat of the moment, things happen, but if you are all the experienced players you claim to be you should have some situational awareness and practice good judgment. What I’m pointing out is a pattern of behavior from some of DT’s players.
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@ Onemanarmy – I am not the helicopter player. I’m relaying his story. I’m willing to drop that specific accusation, since I can’t question that person further.
As far as the hot insert rules go, the event organizer and Wayne both said we did not have to leave the field, simply walk away and insert outside of 100ft. And in reference to your yelling I’ll post this account from another player who was there (I was not personally, but again I am recounting their story)
“I personally got screamed at (along with a ref) by a member of double threat for standing safely behind a firefight with my barrel cover on; gun in the air; discussing with eliminated teammates where/how to re-insert and continue the game. The “gentleman” whos blog we’re writing on was belligerent and verbally abusive to the refs who caved to his pressure to change the rules to suit his personal views.
That’s cheating, plain and simple; especially when it is an experienced adult player browbeating a teenage ref.
A ref with more experience or stones should rightfully have called general dutch out for dissent and disrupting the game, and probably invoked a 1 for 1, if such a thing exists at the field.
I confirmed the rule with Wayne himself, who indicated both gangster and fed teams could re-insert at will anywhere on the field. We were not interested in abusing the rule or taking cheap shots so we stopped to figure out where a safe and fair place to reinsert would be.”
You admit that someone from your team shoved someone over an argument…Obviously that player was wrong for assaulting anyone!
You have been informed of the misconduct of some of you teammates…That was the point of posting this to this blog…I hope you discuss and correct this misconduct instead of dismissing it entirely.
What is telling about your team is Onemanarmy’s statement about being controversial and being scrutinized…I find it interesting that this kind of stuff has come up before with your team…It sounds like a pattern of behavior. I hope I’m wrong…
I intend to continue playing scenarios at Wayne’s World as overall the experience was awesome. I hope to see more sportsmanlike conduct from the team members that were violating the rules.
Good to see the conversation is becoming a tad more constructive:
We at Double Threat are certainlly going to talk about all this long and hard of course.
Quick clarification about the gangster/fed rules- The problem was never that you guys couldn’t insert wherever you pleased, it was the fact that you were required to walk off the playing field before coming back on and doing so. I literally just got off the phone with Wayne about this. The reason for this is that some players would basically continually reinsert ad infinitum. As I said, I have played both roles several times. In any event, I’m sure you guys were misinformed and it wasn’t cheating on your part.
By all means, come back and play again, open dialogue is always the best-and I learn something new every game-
Since “I am the blogger’ Dutch please allow me to insert a word. I posted Steve’s comments which seem to be a ‘cut and paste of Concerned Players–one will do and you can either concur or just ad your name. No big deal-
I am not the belligerent player who did any yelling at all at any time of day during the entire event. I fear you have me mistaken with someone else as I assure you I did not raise my voice to anyone about anything. I was not at the helicopter nor did I see anyone on the sidelines with a ref as you say; Again no big deal but it goes to show that hear say stories lend to inaccuracies and I believe that is some of what we’re dealing with here.
Thanks for reading and hope to see you ‘having fun’
out on the field.
Dear Concerned Player your comments @ Bulldog
‘The color was called out in that bunker confrontation numerous times, It was heard by a third member of the blue team hiding in the bush on the side you hit the bunkered players. Also, you NEVER gave the opportunity to “take the hit” and shot one of the players within 5ft…I realize there is debate over this 15ft/take the hit rule, which hopefully will be resolved when I receive a response from Wayne via email.’
I heard no color call out from my approach which was a flanking move, nore did my team – I knew not who was in the house, I took the players from about 10ft after the final warning from my approaching team, through a door into darkness aiming below the neck… I appologised afterwards when I saw they were blue neutral players, in fact I personnally helped to wipe off the paint, appologising again… The players were advised to call their colors in such cases, and especially in this game of four teams… On another note the danger of asking someone to take the hit is that they can refuse, if you are not right on top of them, or seeing them in full view, you can get blasted at close range… ‘They did not call color, so why would they take the hit was not my unreasonable evaluation of the situation…’ The rest is history…
‘Also, you personally threatened 2 different players with “I’ll shoot you again if you don’t put on your barrel condom” while their guns were in the air and they were reaching for their condoms…That’s very sportsmanlike…’
This was not a threat, but an advisement that barrel condoms are the sign of being ‘hit’ as you move from your position, now markers held high in the air is a great first move for sure, I do not recall that and no one was stating shot player… The safest move for everyone is to place the barrel condom over the barrel as soon as possible, preferably before you move from the hit position, hold your marker high in the air, and state hit: that way their is no doubt, no confusuion and no issue… My intent was not to shoot a shot player, but to ensure that the player recognised that in not doing so he could be hit again… What is so wrong with that… I have seen players who were not hit, walk with players that were hit, then turn and fire once the attention moved else where… Now that could be called unsportsmanlike, I would say its also the attacking player not taking enough care to ensure the players recognize they have been hit, hence the condom reasoning…
‘In regard to your shoving (I was told it was you), even if it wasn’t a teenager you STILL got physical with someone. Which is FAR from sportsmanlike…Even if provoked by words, you still assaulted someone!’
Concerned Player, please be assured it wasn’t a shove, it wasn’t even really physical, after the incident and to another player he stated that I held his collar, I rember placing my hand on his shoulder as he passed… We all probably brushed harder against tree’s and bushes a 100 times that day I’m sure… You are right, it wasn’t a kid, it wasn’ta rookie, it was a known & seassoned player; of course there is little to no mention of the verbal abuse that was hurled at me before the incident… Was I wrong, for sure we all need to remain sportsman like… To that point, before the end of the game, and off the field, I asked if we needed to discuss the issue, the reply was no, it was over there was nothing more to discuss… Again history now, it will not happen again…
‘As far as the “I play hard and fast”, more power to you…Playing hard should not mean violating the rules.’
I am not aware that I violated any rules… I have taken into account your points, that’s a good thing, we all learn from each others opinions… I have learned from yours, I hope you from mine… I will continue to play a hard, fast but fair game, I will continue to bring new players into the game (I have a private group of between 25 & 30 coming just next week), I will always support, listen to and encourage existing players to follow the rules of the game when ever I can… I hope you keep playing, and that you take the time to visit again, if not maybe we will cross paths else where in the future, on the field or off… Keep making comments when compelled to do so, it is your right, as it my right to respond… Bulldog
ps a special thank you to Dutch for allowing this forum to take place…
Indeed, I in fact was the “belligerent player”
As far as the hot inserting, I have to say that you are misinformed about how to go about that… Wayne and the refs must have misunderstood you when you were asking on how to do it properly. I know this because I have been playing at Waynes world for the past 11-12 years and most of those years I have played with my team as a ‘spy’ role in the game. No this past game does not have those and no i was not at the masecre but I felt the need to post again regarding this issue. Hot inserting is inserting ‘live’ or ‘able to shot upon entry to the field.’ This means as soon as you step on to the field, regardless of where it is, you may start shooting. This does not mean you can get shot, walk behind a bunker and start playing again. Wayne has never allowed that type of play unless the game allows certain people to be ‘invincible.’ These games were WAR and Zeus’s Revenge, but not the massacre. I know the hot insertion rules the back of my hand primarily because that went with my duty as a spy for so many years. Wayne and Jackie usually dont let me spy anymore because I have done it again and again. What can I say, I love spying on the other team, I like that style of play… The main issue to this rule is that once you get shot out, you must leave the field and come back on.
As far as not being able to refuse the ‘take the hit’ rule. If it cannot be refused, and i get within 15ft of a grp of several people and they are unaware of my pressence, I automatically get to call them all out? No… That is like me getting on the other side of a wall from you and tapping it and telling you that you are out, taking all sense of strategy and paintball from the scene. It is a simple rule to prevent people that do not wish to engage into paintball that close from being shot. Those not wishing to be shot that close will most likely not run into buildings engaging the enemy team at close range, chances are they are going to be shot. Do people accidentally get shot up close? Sure, it happens to all of us, and ‘sorry’ is usually said more than one time on different occasions throughout the day. But the fact is that when you are in the heat of battle, some people get jumpy and when they make a ‘game changer’ move and have to cler a building, if someone, regardless of color pops in the window or door, the jittery fingers are going to hit the trigger, and not to mention the electronic triggers only need to be breathed on to be fired… I have been in the heat of battle and holding a building when a team mate of mine ran into the building trying to help me out, not knowing he was my team mate and close friend, popping in the door without calling first got him shot, my fault but I wasnt lettig anyone through that door…
Shortstop